Subscribe to the Chatham Chatlist

Register for free at

Last comments

Chatham Chatlist Highlights
I\'m new to the area from Wellington,FL and I\'m looking for...
06/03/09 16:23 More...
By EBuol

Chatham Chatlist #3161
Hi everyone, I am a new insurance agent with Farm Bureau In...
07/01/09 10:04 More...
By Nicole Ward

Chatham Chatlist #2872
Private farm in Chatham County approx 12 mi s of Pittsboro h...
20/12/08 23:43 More...
By csh

Chatham Chatlist #3161
Jordan Lake Festival TICKET GIVEAWAY!!!!
03/09/08 11:13 More...
By jordanlakefestival

Chatham Chatlist #3040
Thank You Chatham Mortgage!
I\'d like ...
19/08/08 20:56 More...
By szuletik


powered_by.png, 1 kB
Home arrow Past Chatham Chatlists arrow Chatham Chatlist #3376
Chatham Chatlist #3376 PDF Print E-mail
Written by Gene Galin   
Monday, 23 March 2009

This digest contains the following messages:

  1. Changing an ecosystem can destroy it - locals aren't "ignorant"  
         by: Kit Donner
  2. Perhaps you should also remember...  
         by: Judy Orchard
  3. locals  
         by: Michael Kirkman
  4. black walnut tree  
         by: Pat Weisbrodt
  5. natives and newcomers  
         by: Brad Page
  6. pressed flower workshop  
         by: Pat Weisbrodt
  7. seeking (affordable) dance and yoga classes in pittsboro  
         by: Carrie Fields
  8. natives and newcomers  
         by: John Dykers, MD
  9. Aphorism  
         by: John Dykers, MD
  10. The way things are......(were).  
         by: Meg Miller
  11. Water For the Future?  
         by: tim keim
  12. Abundance Foundation Sustainability Workshop Series  
         by: Tami Schwerin
  13. Music This Week at the General Store Cafe  
         by: joyce
  14. Pancake breakfast  
         by: Catherine MacAllister
  15. Last Week's Hottest Bulletin Board Topics  

--------------------  1  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:13:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kit Donner
Subject: Changing an ecosystem can destroy it - locals aren't "ignorant"

Cryptic newcomer -
I have stayed out of the local vs newcomer debate previously pretty easily, but I can't ignore your level of ignorance (and intolerance and stereotyping, but I could have ignored those).
I'm a newcomer - I have been living in Chatham less than 5 years, and in North Carolina only around 20 years, but I have found the state and the county very very welcoming to me personally. I love it here and wouldn't want to return to New Jersey, even to be closer to beloved family. I also respect the people who have lived here for generations and who have helped to make this the type of place I want to live. They are no more racist than people I have lived around in most other parts of the country, including the Northeast, and no more resistant to change in general. In every community there are a few folks who feel that any change is bad, and anybody different than me is bad, and a lot of folks who are fairly open minded, and the same is true here, both among "natives" and "newcomers".
One of the big differences between a lot of the positions expressed by and associated with "natives" and "newcomers" (stereotypically) in Chatham, is that some people in both groups are familiar with agriculture and the requirements of an agricultural community, with native plants and animals in the North Carolina piedmont and what changes adversely impact their survival, with what affects the livelihoods of those who have lived here for generations and are not necessarily prepared to move to Seattle or Chicago to start over if their life here is destroyed. Some people, in both groups, but more in the newcomers than in the natives, don't know, don't care, and think that anyone who does know and care is "ignorant and racist".
It is much easier to successfully start or change or rebuild an urban economy than a rural one. An urban economy depends on man made things predominantly, and these can be repaired and replaced in a matter of months given enough money, but barring a Katrina sized disaster take years to destroy. A rural economy depends heavily on highly interrelated natural phenomena that take decades or longer to get into balance, but that can be destroyed in hours with nothing more costly than a lit match, or a dumping of waste chemicals, or any of hundreds of other ignorant actions by a handful of humans.
There are fewer and fewer niche ecologies in the United States and the world that can provide the particular rich ecosystems we delight in here in Chatham County. We will see substantial change in this county in the near future, and change is often good. But we do need to make the changes we make be thoughtful changes, and to do so we need the experience of the farmers, fishers, hunters, gardeners, etc of the county, whether native born or transplanted. We need to listen to and respect the people who have the knowledge to help us make the changes in Chatham be healthy changes, nuturing changes, both for the environment and the people of Chatham.
I have found that a little respect will go a long way to bridge divides between newcomer and native, and I urge all newcomers to take the time to respectfully listen to as many "natives" as possible. What you learn will enrich your enjoyment of Chatham County immeasureably. And it will help us all to preserve and protect what is best about where we all call home.
--------------------  5  --------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:06:04 -0400
From: CrYpTiK
Subject: RE: "locals"

"They feel that there was a reason newcomers chose to move to Chatham
County and that if they didn't like what they found here, they should
have moved back rather than tampering with a system that wasn't broken"

My heart bleeds for ya.

Unfortunately, I could care less about these "old locals" and their
staunch support for a static society.  By virtue of planting my buttocks
into a house in the county as my primary residence, I'm now a "local." 
The community is what the sum of its parts makes it to be, not what some
grouchy old country boy decides it should be.  Chatham County is not an
island, and no one in Chatham has the right to tell me that "my kind
ain't welcome here" and that if I don't like things exactly as they are
now that I should get out.  No change will make every person involved
happy, but if everyone in the world adopted the "this is how it is and
this is how I like it, so if you don't like it, get out!" mentality, I
suppose airports and hospitals wouldn't have come about and the quality
of life of all people in society would not be as good as it is today. 
How many of these hardened "locals" visit the hospital for care, or
purchase food from Wal-Mart?  I'd argue that the angry "locals" you talk
about benefit in general from overall societal progress as much as they
squeak about suffering from it.

The truth is that the "good old days" will always be over for everyone,
and what we're really dealing with is more of a failure to accept the
evolution of society into something other than what these people
remember from the past.  In 30 years, I'm certain that everything will
be starkly different from my childhood memories; in fact, the Internet
alone has changed my entire life from what I remember even in the early
90's, and it will only continue to change more and more as time goes
on.  Fortunately, those who harbor these undesirable traits such as
excessive resistance to societal progress and racism are slowly dying
off, and a younger generation will take over, embracing the progress of


--------------------  2  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:26:20 -0400
From: "Judy Orchard"
Subject: Perhaps you should also remember...

Those "outsiders" you chastise are also the same ones who are volunteering
in your children's classrooms, spending thousands of dollars every month to
support the local economy at the grocery stores, food establishments, retail
markets (many owned by "locals") we donate time, goods and money to support
the PTSA Thrift Shops, Rape & Crisis Center, Salvation Army, Home Stores and
other local charities.  No, we may not have grown up here, but we can and
have made a positive difference.  Last time I checked we were still in
America right?  Can anyone truly claim to be a native?   Folks, we need to
work together to survive, especially in these dark economic times.  There is
no reason to pass judgment on us just because we're not from here, or have a
big house - who knows, we may be the very ones who come to your aid when you
don't have money for food, Christmas gifts for your children or clothing and
furniture when you're house burns down.  Think about it.

--------------------  3  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:50:50 -0400
From: "Michael Kirkman"
Subject: locals

I have lived near Pittsboro for off and on 18 years and grew in a small town
(Mt. Airy NC).  I like living here because of my neighbors and their
attitude.  It doesn't matter where you are from.  I think you will be fine
as long as you are a good neighbor and treat your neighbors with respect.
Chatham County's main problem is it's "neighbors" - Chapel Hill, CARY, Apex
and Durham.  They are the ones changing the fabric of Chatham County.  My
main problem is how it affects the government especially concerning property
taxes.  I am lucky in that I do not see my neighborhood changing much soon
unless the DOT decides to build the 15/501 bypass within the next 10 years.

MARKETS (Pittsboro, Fearington, Siler City)

--------------------  4  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:09:53 -0400
From: "Pat Weisbrodt"
Subject: black walnut tree

Regrettably, I am having a large black walnut tree cut down Wednesday.  If interested in any or all of the wood, please contact me @ 545-9603. Thanks, Pat

--------------------  5  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:14:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brad Page
Subject: natives and newcomers

In reply to Matt:

The 'middle' you talk about doesn't really exist. I say this not in criticism of your intentions as clarifying things but with a full understanding that Chatham County is one on the juicier targets for population expansion on the edge of the Raleigh/Durham metro which is the fastest growing city in the country. I lived in Charlotte from 1967 to 2005. With the exception of a few 'historic' enclaves virtually the entire town has been knocked down and rebuilt - natives be damned. When I moved there Charlotte was a country/city town having over 40 years thru the 60's inherited the commercial culture surrounding it and reflective of that. Just before I left I went to a client's home in one development that took me 45 minutes in raging traffic from the center of town to arrive at the edge of. Then it took another 30 minutes to drive to this person's house with clear directions. Enough was enough. I was invited to Chatham County and jumped at the chance. Now the juggernaut is coming from the east.

Practically everything done to Charlotte's landscape was done legally. The same laws bind the best intentions of our county commissioners to state standards. Rather than throw up our hands and search out a middle ground by looking for other people to blame I'd suggest each one of us find out what's coming at us, when, the laws involved and the intentions of the county commission. There's no need to villainize developers, they built your house and my house, that service station, that county courthouse. For your own futures sitting back and letting others do the hard work for you just plain doesn't get it.

My two bits worth,


--------------------  6  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:19:47 -0400
From: "Pat Weisbrodt"
Subject: pressed flower workshop

I wanted to thank Gia (owner of Urban Sampler) for allowing me to conduct a workshop in her back room/ office.  We all enjoyed the time together and are thinking of starting a crafting club.  Besides the works of art that were created, we sipped coffee Gia provided and made new friends. What could be better?
Not everybody was able to attend on the dates that had been picked.  Gia is willing to have more workshops in her office, so email me if you have any interest.

--------------------  7  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:58:05 -0400
From: Carrie Fields
Subject: seeking (affordable) dance and yoga classes in pittsboro

I'm just trying to get an idea of what my options are with regards to
movement classes and/or groups offered in the Pittsboro area.  I'm
particularly interested in modern dance and ashtanga-type yoga, but am
interested in hearing about any sort of creative movement classes offered in
the area.  I know of some in Chapel Hill but it would be great to stay

contact me at  if you have any info to share!

--------------------  8  --------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:46:12 -0500
From: "John Dykers, MD"
Subject: natives and newcomers

Claire Kane certainly wrote a fine essay on this subject.
I like to tease that I came here in 1964 and some of the natives are beginning to think I'm going to stay!
That Fall I drove in my driveway at what is now New Hope Farm with a wife and 2 small children. Primarily because of the peripatetic nature of my mother and the movements required by World War II and then my schooling, I had lived 17 different places (all in the South) at that point, I decided that "come hell or high water" I was home, even though I could not see the ocean. Meadow Creek became my emotional umbilical cord to the sea! There has been lots of "hell and high water", but I am still right here and prefer afternoon on the porch to the finest resort anywhere in the world.
I remember the arrival of Hardee's in old downtown as the first franchise business. The movie had burned down before I arrived, Then came Siler Crossing, the 421 bypass, and I voluntarily moved the site of my abbatoir and tractor company from where is now Bojangles to out next to the Carolina Stockyards. We have since then lost the textile and furniture manufactureing that was the base of that economy. Poultry is still perking even if the feed mill that started it is gone. (Clyde Fore started the effectvie vertical integration of poultry with Bill Wren (Wren Memorial Library) at Siler City Mills and Townsend's and Tyson and all the rest are built on his business model started right here.) We hope CharLean and vertical integration of the beef business may be a prosperous successor and boost our local economy.  We keep pecking away trying to work out the kinks and expand our marketing and hope all of you will help when you can.
Change is inevitable as we learn new techniques for solving old problems. We will equally inevitably create new problems. All we can strive to do is select the most effective of the new and try to avoid deleterious unintended consequences. As we become more crowded, we will have to have betters manners and be even more courteous to one another.
John Dykers

--------------------  9  --------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:05:55 -0500
From: "John Dykers, MD"
Subject: Aphorism

There is more harm done by self righteous indignation than by all the meanness ever born.
John Dykers

--------------------  10  --------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 06:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Meg Miller
Subject: The way things are......(were).

I can't imagine where the school system would still be mired if the "new comers" hadn't come in and started raising sand about the condition the schools were in 10-15 years ago.  One OLD, long time school board member told me in these exact words, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  It was broken, badly.  You can ask anyone on the inside who knows the mess that is being dealt with by this administration, left behind by years of "just getting by" mentality.  And who is Mr. Logan?An "outsider". And it took electing "outsiders" to improve other things in Chatham.

I see both sides, as my husband was born and raised here and we don't like some of the change.  Both sides offer opportunity to learn and improve if we would just listen.  If you move here and don't like the way something is, you have two options, work for change/improvement or go back to where you came.  The "locals" need to look for some of the brighter points of the change in our county.  And, imo, one is a vastly improved, (with room to go), education system.
Locals also need to realize change is inevitable and you can spend your time bemoaning "the way it was" or embrace and enjoy "the way it is".  Life is short, which sounds like a better use of your time?

--------------------  11  --------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:58:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: tim keim
Subject: Water For the Future?

This editorial appeared in the Chapel Hill Herald Sun on March 14.

Water for the Future?

Since we've been taken unawares by our recent economic troubles, I wanted to do a little crystal gazing to figure out if Chatham County will have enough water in what is predicted to be a drought prone future. During my research for this piece I spoke with several public officials in county, state and federal government who are charged with the task of making sure we have adequate water for an uncertain future.

Readers of this column know that I'm often critical of our water quality in Chatham County, and now I'm trying to understand what kind of quantity we can expect. This is all part of trying to figure out what the carrying capacity of Chatham is with respect to our available water resources. Carrying capacity is the number of people that the land can support within its resource budget.

Since I hail from California where water is imported vast distances to  millions of people and huge tracts of farmland, that information is always in the back of my mind as I contemplate our water needs here in Chatham. As water becomes ever more precious with climate change altering precipitation patterns, there is an important lesson we can learn from our fellow citizens in the arid West.

That lesson is: don't overpopulate. How can we tell when there are too many of us? The rule of thumb I use is living within the limits of your local watershed. Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix and Las Vegas all import water from the Colorado River. They outgrew their local watersheds decades ago. None of these cities should have anywhere near the population that presently burdens their drought ravaged region. Importing water from afar is the evidence that a region has exceeded its resource budget.

At present,  Apex,  Cary, Chatham,  and Morrisville draw water from Lake Jordan. The so-called “safe yield† of the lake is 100 million gallons per day (mgd). Currently, 67 million mgd are allocated among the users above. According to U.S. Army Corpsman, Ralph Duckson, about 50% of the allocation is used. The safe yield was calculated by using data from the worst droughts on record. The 100 mgd number has been in use long before the drought of  2007, which is the worst drought we've seen. So, it's time for a new calculation.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room, of course, is climate change. A study of the southeastern states done by the U.S. Dept of Agriculture concluded: “The severe drought in 2007across the study region was the best example that demonstrated how changes in precipitation patterns could cause serious water supply problems. Water resource planning must consider both the uncertainty of water supply due to climate change and continued increase of water demand due to population increase†.

If the consumers of Jordan Lake are only using about 50% of their current allocation and the drought of 2007 seriously threatened our water supply, then it seems logical to me that the safe yield of the lake may be much less than previously calculated. Therefore, any future allocations of Jordan Lake could be extremely risky. We have reached the limits of growth for our watershed.

So, shall we now begin to work out complicated water importation schemes as they do in the West? Certainly not. Just as we're realizing that our orgy of irresponsible financial overconsumption has come to end, we must understand survival imperative of living
 within our natural resource budget as well. This will entail two major changes in the way we live.

First, we will have to learn to control our population. Either we do it voluntarily, or nature will do it for us. We have no right to continue the rapacious use of our land, soil and water. They are not renewable. Human population must find a homeostatic balance with the natural yield of our resource base.

Two, and here's where we as technological adepts can really shine, we must devise more clever devices to conserve the water to which we're limited. The easiest way to begin is by recycling our wastewater. Toilet to tap technologies exist, it's just the idea that is so unpalatable.  These technologies are more effective than simply diluting partially cleaned sewage by discharging back into our rivers. For millions of years nature has been cleaning and recycling water, and we must learn to do the same.

All this may seem rather abstract now. Lake Jordan is full for the moment, but parts of NC are still in drought. Climate change promises to challenge our ingenuity to thrive on our blue planet. We must plan for a future of not so rainy days.

A clarification to last week's column. Apparently, I misunderstood PBO Commissioner Pamela Baldwin's position on  the bus route from Pittsboro to Chapel Hill.

Baldwin said that, “funding depended on the budget.† She did not say she “was not in favor of participating in this venture†.

At the March 9 Town Board meeting, Ms. Baldwin voted in the minority to support cooperation between the town and Chatham County for the bus service.


Note to all -

This was an editorial Tim submitted to the Chapel Hill Herald.

As a general rule we do not allow the posting of entire online articles on the Chatlist.
You can post several paragraphs from an online article and you MUST provide a credit line as well as a link to the referenced article.

Gene Galin
Chatlist moderator


--------------------  12  --------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:29:49 -0400
From: Tami Schwerin
Subject: Abundance Foundation Sustainability Workshop Series

We have 3 amazing workshops coming up in April.  Registration is  
required by April 1st:

1.  The very popular subject and workshop, Fungi 101 (hands on  
mushroom cultivation) by Bob Armantrout is being held April 4th.  
Early Registration is $35 until April 1st and the class size is  
limited to 30 students.  To register or for more information:

2.  Bread Making with Emily Buehler was such a success, that we are  
doing it AGAIN!  Early registration by April 1st is $30.  Class size  
is limited to 12 people and you can register by clicking here:

3.  And another very popular workshop, Brian Rosa and Amanda Sand will  
be teaching everything you want to know about VERMICULTURE on April  
11th.  Class size is limited to 30 and early registration by April 1st  
is $45.  To register click here:

Happy Spring!

Tami Schwerin
local food~renewable energy~community

--------------------  13  --------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:08:25 -0400
From: "joyce"
Subject: Music This Week at the General Store Cafe

This week at the General Store Café
We will be featuring Shag Dancing Monday, March 23, 7 pm-10 pm, then on
Tuesday, March 24 – 6:30-8:30 pm, a Benefit Concert & Silent Auction for
Catherine Royce, sister of Becket Royce McGough with music performed by
Trilogy with Donovan Zimmerman, Paul Ford and Sheila Fleming -
Singer/Songwriter, (10% of GSC proceeds that evening donated), Jazz with
the Marie Vanderbeck Trio on Thursday, March 26, 7-9 pm, Mary J. Rockers
& Jocelyn Arem on Friday, March 27, 8:30-11:00 pm and Carolina Lightning
on Saturday, March 21, 8:30-11:00 pm, Cover $5.

--------------------  14  --------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:34:18 -0400
From: Catherine MacAllister
Subject: Pancake breakfast

The Perry Harrison 7th-graders are hosting a pancake breakfast to raise
money for their trip to Washington, DC next year. Here are the details:

    * When: Saturday, March 28, from 8:00 until 10:30
    * Where: Andy's Restaurant, located at 987 East St. in Pittsboro
    * How Much: $5.00 for three pancakes, three pieces of bacon, and a

If you're heading out to early soccer games or baseball practice,
consider dropping by Andy's first to enjoy a hearty breakfast that's for
a good cause. We hope to see you there!

--------------------  15  --------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:02:08 -0400
From: "Gene"
Subject: Last Week's Hottest Bulletin Board Topics

Last Week's Hottest Bulletin Board Topics

1.      Why is it bad for outside groups to help Chatham County?  (Read 1894 times) at,11536.0.html

2.      Siler City & Pittsboro Chevrolet gone  (Read 1245 times) at,11565.0.html

3.      Our Sheriff Webster makes front page of Que Pasa Mexican Newspaper!!!  (Read 1222 times) at,11723.0.html

4. - First, Vermont; Then, Siler City  (Read 1108 times) at,11662.0.html

5.      Chatham Co GOP-CCV Taxation Tea Party Protest in Raleigh PICTURES FROM TODAY!!!  (Read 855 times) at,11837.0.html

6.      I live in the town, not the county. I don't need county cops' protection and shouldn't have to pay for it  (Read
638 times) at,11807.0.html

7.      Farmers' Alliance Store needs your help  (Read 537 times) at,11646.0.html

8.      What is in Your Well Water?  (Read 481 times) at,11547.0.html

9.      SWOT Analysis, Anyone Heard Results on the $154,000 our County Paid For?  (Read 466 times) at,11687.0.html

10.     CC - Two murders, two days, three arrests  (Read 404 times) at,11861.0.html

11.     Anyone checked/paid vehicle taxes lately?  (Read 386 times) at,11880.0.html

12.     Chatham Transit Network needs your input  (Read 380 times) at,11673.0.html

13.     Economic Development Corporation to host joint meeting - March 19  (Read 283 times) at,11738.0.html

14.     Use this info in Chatham Correctly to thwart BOC and illegals!  (Read 272 times) at,11800.0.html

15.     IDAIRY urges Congress to implement mandatory animal ID  (Read 241 times) at,11625.0.html

16.     NC Biofuels Center Grant Award  (Read 222 times) at,11759.0.html

Chatlist Affiliated Links

Chatham Chatlist Highlights at

Chatlist Sponsorship Calendar at

Chatham Chatlist Archives at

Chatham Journal Newspaper at

Chatham Online Bulletin Board at

Chatham County Schools (unofficial) at

Chatham County Online at

Chatham Journal Podcasts at

Chatham Animal Lovers group at

Chatham Online Links at

Chatham Business Directory at

Chatham Journal Newspaper Online Store at

This E-mail digest is maintained by Gene Galin
Add as favourites (348) | Quote this article on your site | Views: 5905 | Print

Be first to comment this article
RSS comments

Only registered users can write comments.
Please login or register.

Powered by AkoComment Tweaked Special Edition v.1.4.4

Last Updated ( Monday, 23 March 2009 )
< Prev   Next >

Random Image

© 2018 Chatham Chatlist
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.